Does anybody know why Grav developers chose Flexbox over CCS Grid?

Hello, Does any body knows what was the criteria used by Grav developers to choose Flexbox for website layout instead of CCS GRID, for Grav new version in Quark Theme?

Please see these references, thanks in advance:
3 ways to display two divs side by side (float, flexbox, CSS grid):

2.- A Complete Guide to Grid:

3.- Auto-Sizing Columns in CSS Grid: auto-fill vs auto-fit

4.- The Holy Grail Layout with CSS Grid:

5.- Top 5 CSS Grid Layout Generators:
Recommended visual CSS grid layout generators in 2021.

5.1 I love the simplicity of this one CSS Grid Generator:


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Another interesting article on the subject:

But does it matter? You can always extend Quark and change the base template to your liking. Or you can try submitting a pull request on Github. Sorry, but I don’t see a point of this topic, because any answer wouldn’t change anything :thinking:

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Hello and thank you for your answer @Karmalakas . I just wanted to know the criteria. I also posted all that information for someone to consider CSS Grid when developing a new theme for Grav. I am clear, that as soon as I get more expertise and knowledge in Grav It would be good to develop own theme. But there are other priorities now. This is not a critique to Grav core theme, I am not in the position to evaluate such a wonder piece of development. It is simply a personal question and an implicit suggestion for a CSS Grid based theme. Regards.

If I understand correctly the reasons why you asked the question, this has nothing to do with Grav :thinking: Or does it? I mean… It’s just layout and CSS and it doesn’t matter if on Grav based page or Wordpress or any other. What I want to say, you could search for reasons on the web. Eg. css grid vs flex

Unless you really want to know the reasons specifically from Grav team :thinking:

Hello @Karmalakas
I am still learning all this stuff, I am not a programmer, sorry, I only wanted to know the criteria used from the point of view of developers, only that. If developers are very busy I can understand, no problem.
Best regards.

I think IE is still late

Hello @Kit, for me the 5% browser share of IE is negligible.

When I have friends that have problems with their computers and ask me for help, I always get rid of Corona-Windows and install MX-Linux, or if the computer is too old, I install Linux LXLE, or if the computer is a very old netbook, I provide them with Porteus Linux from USB. I have killed many Corona-Windows and my friends are happy with their vaccinated computers. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


5% on how many users ? 100 or 1 000 000 ?
This can affect many people

CSS property : gap, grid-row and more
Not well supported by IE 11

The theme is for the whole community, so there needs to be maximum compatibility

Then depending on your trafic, you can make changes that will be supported for all your visitors

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Good point @Kit
1. IE estimated users: As per this Article:

My calculations based on this article are:
|Billion users|
| 4,3|Total Internet users||
|-2,71|Smartphone users||
|-1,23|Tablet users||
| 0,36|Desktop = 360.000.000,00
| 5% | IE Share = 18.000.000,00

Note: I will assume smartphone and tablet users may have also a modern desktop but it will not have IE.

1.1 In terms of the numbers of estimated users, that is a valid point.

1.2 Grav users with IE: In terms of Grav “community” I doubt very much that a user that selects Grav as its CMS to work with, will still be using an old unsupported Win XP, a cracked version of Win XP, or Vista and much less using IE.

1.3 I do not know if you are a Grav developer, but you have provided a reasonable answer to my question, that can be a criterion.

2. IE Flexbox support: But it has to be considered that, and I quote: “Internet Explorer doesn’t fully support Flexbox due to large amount of bugs present (see known issues)…”

3. IE Grid support: On the other side CCS-Grid can run on Internet Explorer using this technique:

I will mark this post as solved, thanks @Kit

PS: Sorry, my numbers are in Spanish format.

BTW. If You want to use CSS Grid or other things You can create custom theme. Its always faster and it will server exact goals…

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@joejac, My 2 cents of speculation… For what it’s worth because only the dev team knows…

  1. The question about the supposed choice made by the Grav devs for Flexbox over CSS Grid is IMHO invalid.
    The team did not choose between CSS Grid or Flexbox, but chose a CSS Framework for Quark: Spectre. And Spectre happens to use FlexBox.
    • I believe Antimatter, the predecessor of Quark, uses the Pure framework (using Flexbox).
    • The new Typhoon premium theme is using the Tailwind CSS Framework, which is also Flexbox based.
    • By the way, the popular Bootstrap framework (Flexbox) is only starting to offer experimental and optional CSS Grid support since version 5.1.0, which has been released recently.
  2. Why a CSS Framework?
    Because, when building a site/theme, you need more then only Grid/Flexbox.
    • You want, out-of-the-box, a coherent styling of HTML elements like buttons, anchors, forms, etc.
    • You want, out-of-the-box, components like navbars, accordions, modals, badges, etc. etc.
    • You want a layout- or grid-system. Spectre happens to use Flexbox for its grid system.
    • You want utility classes.
    • CSS Frameworks can easily be adapted by developers to suit their needs by overriding pre-defined variables for colours, fonts, etc and/or override scss. Themes based on a CSS Framework inherit this flexibility/adaptability.
  3. You want a stable and well adopted and documented CSS framework.
    I doubt if there were any CSS Frameworks (stable and well adopted) using CSS Grid around the time (late 2017) that Quark was build (first commit 12 Dec 2017).
    Late 2017, CSS Grid was just released and only a handful browsers supported it. That doesn’t mean users were already using these browsers. Meaning, a high percentage of users would not be able to display CSS Grid styling correctly for quite some time.

As a side note:
The absolute number of world-wide users using browsers not being capable of displaying CSS Grid properly is not important. It’s about the percentage of potential targeted visitors you might lose when using a certain HTML/CSS/Javascript feature.

For a local taxi company its about the percentage of local users not being able to display the site correctly. The user base of a site targeting front-end developers will probably have the latest and greatest browser versions.


1.2 Grav users with IE :
A developer can provide a Grav system to a company / association and part of the customers of this compagny are people who keep their old computers :wink:
There are also companies that keep their old computers :cold_face:

1.3 I do not know if you are a Grav developer,
Not at all ^^
It’s part of my freelance job, web intégrator :coffee:

My opinion for IE 11, it will be the same story as IE 6, we will wait another 3-4 years

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Thanks @Kit, and also @pamtbaau for your well detailed explanation, both have provided very good answers to me, pamtbaau goes deep in developer reasons, and Kit’s customers reason is very important, where I live companies in general are in very bad economic shape to upgrade their computers. Both have clarified and complimented my question, but I can only mark one as a Solution.

Sorry if my question was not valid. I have learned good stuff with these answers. I was avoiding CSS Frameworks, but I may need to study a good and simple one, perhaps the one chosen by Grav team.

Thanks to all for your time in clarifying me the points.
Best regards